AFAIK, there is no clutch on the engine fan on the 240D. The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. I think so. ). Get to the point where I can walk without crutches2. A discussion of the relationship between valve capacities and superheat set-tings can be found in Bulletin 10-9. R134a and R12 are among the most popular types of refrigerants. Temp switch works the aux fan. Lets take you through the advantages, disadvantages, and differences of these two refrigerants a detailed comparison including R12 vs R134a performance. It will work and there will be very little, in any difference in performance.As Chick stated, the difference is only the gas used in the sensor tube. As per their results . For instance you can evacuate FRIGC FR-12 into a refrigerant recovery bottle that has R134a in it or visa versa. A/C R12 to R134a Conversion Success | IH8MUD Forum R134a has an ozone depletion potential of 0, implying that it has a slight effect on the ozone layer. At least you do not have 16 ounces in there ( yup seen it before).For now, straighten all of the fins that you can, clean the condensor well, and re-test with the aux fan running. However, R134a is better than R12. Whenever its exposed to the environment, it changes to a gas. "Jerky Locker" LMAO I am using that one in the future!Florida = BUGS! Edited: Tue July 17, 2007 at 3:25 AM by bohica2xo, I believe there is only one switch - the refrigerant switch. . The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. R12, on the other hand, is called chlorofluorocarbon (CFC). R134a vs R12 refrigerant? #19. Even with proper fan operation, missing seals & air dams can effect condensor effeciency. These efforts to balance the system can not be realized if there are problems within the a/c system, such as: poor performing compressor, dirty condenser or poor air flow through the condenser, malfunctioning expansion valve, water or air in the system, improperly operating fresh air or heat input in the climate-air mixing system. We ALWAYS want to know the pressure readings! R12 systems used mineral oil, but unfortunately mineral oil doesn't dissolve in R134a. and recharged with mineral oil and 2.2 lbs R12. So if the TXV is OK, and the too much oil situation is not a big problem, then I wonder why the compressor is switching off after about 15 minutes of cooling? of refrigerant insulation tape. They should be able to keep you comfortable on a long trip, but don't expect vent frost in 3 minutes or lesss.2) Too much oil can reduce cooling capacity, and the effect is not linear. The problem with not being an expert is that you don't know what is important and what's not. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve in /nfs/c05/h04/mnt/113983/domains/toragrafix.com/html/wp-content . R134a was selected as a replacement refrigerant for R12 because R12 contains chlorine and has a major effect to ozone layer depletion. Recharge the compressor with a/c ester oil and a tracer dye. How to Convert R12 to R22 | eHow They have no moving parts. Skin contact: If the R134a (liquid) comes in contact with your skin, it could cause a burn. As an example, let's say the R12 charge specification is listed at 2 lbs. With new R12 no longer being manufactured, the market price soared to $100/pound. In practice this means that the car can overheat and the aux fan will stay off! ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. If there is a resource I should read first to save you time, let me know. . Can I use the one for the R-12? Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. It slowly gets warmer and warmer in the car, even at highway speeds. It's actually a reaction with chlorine in the mineral oil that may have been absorbed and leftover from the old R-12. In large application systems, the vapor density of this refrigerant is usually high. R134a vs R12 - What is the Differences? - Rx Mechanic In most cases, the systems used have varied components, designs, and service ports. I have the original (R12) style expansion valve in the Maverick AC system. Shorting the plug for the refrigerant switch should run the fan when the compressor is on. Safe but sorry! Post photos, respond to polls and access other special features. El maig de 2016, un grup damics van crear un lloc web deOne Piece amb lobjectiu doferir la srie doblada en catal de forma gratuta i crear una comunitat que inclogus informaci, notcies i ms. This kit comes complete with Expansion valve, o-ring kit, and 1ft. R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. I cleaned the evap as best I could, if that is what you are getting at. It is usually sold under the brand name, Freon 12. 1.5 ounces - hmmm. Crap! #13. R134a is NOT less efficient than R12 Actually R134a is more efficient. It is perhaps possible to locate a unit with a company that purchases close out or distressed merchandise. 42 (at best) w/ 134A in 2000 isuzu trooper. Its not that difficult but the procedures of evacuation, charging and testing should be done by a licensed a/c technician that is experienced with R134a and your particular car. The exact amount will vary with each car. You can buy bulk hose, and the proper fittings, then have them crimped off the vehicle.Be sure that no air bypasses the new condensor on the way to the radiator. Gnats & mosquitos will clog deep. Though - the valve for a 1991 says R12 on it, and for a 1994, it says R-134a. You are indeed 20% out of the OEM spec for cooling. It runs between the condenser outlet, receiver/drier unit and expansion valve at the firewall. 34 in 70 series w/ R12 in 100+ Tucson, AZ summer heat w/ hd-t, w/ 13B-T is was unbearable about 31 at vent w/ R12. Also called the orifice tube. There are three different refrigerants officially sanctioned by the EPA for automotive usage: r-12, r-. There is only a temperature switch on these cars as far as I recall, and it just switches on the aux fan. Inhalation of vapor: Inhaling a large amount of R134a vapor can lead to drowsiness, temporary nervous system depression, and lethargy. Your average garage that works on a/c on the side probably would not have this. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. Warning: "continue" targeting switch is equivalent to "break".Did you mean to use "continue 2"? You may be just fine on oil - it depends on what compressor you have & how much oil you put in.A T/C is short for Thermocouple. maintain the A/C of older cars. It didn't seem too dirty though - I don't think it is the problem, but I could be wrong. R12, on the other hand, has an ozone depletion potential of 1, implying that it can damage the ozone layer. Stay home and grill your own steaks and stir your own martini. Usually, mechanics charge around $200 for conversion. J.Harris said: Or if you want to do it like they do in Mexico you can use propane, it's an excellent refrigerant but highly flammable. However, you can convert R12 to R134a by yourself, save money and keep all the tools purchased. R-134a is widely believed to be the most acceptable R12 substitute. The compressors used by refrigeration plants to compress gas require oil to help lubricate its moving parts. There are R134a specific valves that operate at a slightly different pressure, but not for any "old" automotive application that I'm aware of. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." But I don't want to waste your time. The aux fan didn't switch on though and I didn't check the high side temperature. What effect would it have on performance, if any?At the moment, the ac is acting up - will work fine for about 15 minutes and then slowly the vent temperatures rise until the compressor switches off. These differences in the valve size can be attributed to the correlation of the cooling capacity with the enthalpy difference and the mass flow, which in . So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. . I don't think it has any air dams or seals, I'll check to make sure. By after changing just about everything, he got what was termed, satisfactory cooling. The money you will save by will pay for the R12. A/C receiver difference between R12 and R134a? | NSX Prime Since then, the industry standard has been R134a, which is an efficient replacement. R134a. Since you will be using less R134a than R12 you do not want to rely on the driers site glass to determine if the system is full. That switch should close @ 52c. The global warming potential of R134a is 1430. Some 1993 and older R12 systems aren't as 'compatible' as you'd think to switch over. We recently created this blog site to enable us to share our knowledge with other automotive mechanics and car owners. Existing technology: R134a has been in use in the refrigeration industry for very many years, and theres so much information about the safe use of the product. This can be very very expensive. It cycles on off in med (or low for that matter)Gotta tell ya. Performance doesn't seem to have improved. Compatible with multiple applications: The major reason for the introduction of R134a was to replace R12, so it functions perfectly in the same range of applications like rotary, screw, and centrifugal compressors for air conditioning and refrigeration. "Howdy, Folks!" That's a lot isn't it? These cheap kits usually have a few cans of R134a (either 12 ounce or 16 ounce), maybe an extra can of refrigerant oil, a few generic R134a charge port adapters and maybe some o-rings. Yes, this was a smokers car. Its duty is to convert toxic gasses produced by the engine into A brake cleaner is a powerful solvent for cleaning dirt from the brakes and other car components. Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. Whether R134a performs as well as R12 in any given a/c system depends upon system components and the amount of R134a used. 2022 nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer, a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve, 2020 white paper of the church of pentecost, Chime Mobile Check Deposit Funds Availability, Why Does James Kill Donald In The Vanishing, nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer. We, the Rxmechanic team, have presented a well-detailed comparison of R134a vs. R12. The common problem when converting from R12 to R134a is lack of knowledge or equipment. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." This implies that the discharge pressure of the compressor should be moderate so it can produce the refrigerants condensation in the condenser at the atmospheric temperature. R12 to R134a change expansion valve? - HVAC-Talk: Heating, Air GWP is a measurement of Greenhouse Gases and their effect on Global Warming. The difference really shows up on the high side. The experimental values of C.O.P.H obtained with the R134a/ester charge were 20.2% But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. You do not have to split up the 5-6 oz of oil and add it to each component, just simply put it all in the compressor as it will move throughout the whole system once the system is operational. At 40, it is 35psi, which is a difference of 8.9psi. R-12 - yellow R-134a - light blue R-22 - green R-402A - light brown (sand) R-402B - olive R-404A - orange R-407C - medium brown R-410A - rose R-507 - teal J Originally Posted by goldNSX. Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? If your cars system has a sufficient condenser design and air flow to expel the greater amount of heat extracted by R134a, then by all means you should convert over when the time comes. . If you still find it difficult to use R134a in a home AC system, you can check out a comparison of R12 vs R134a fittings to know the refrigerant that best fits the AC system. The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. R1234yf. A Lot of the fins are bent, especially at the top. hardly noticable. R12 is simply too expensive for a 25+ year old A/C system. You can spend long evenings reading about the differences between the two refrigerants. This would be a custom install, there is no "drop-in" condensor upgrade for that car.Check for proper fan operation, and clean the air path on both the condensor & radiator. Heres R12 vs. R134a pressure chart. Thanks again. The oil is spread all over your system when it is at rest. I could easily be over at least 2 - 3 ounces over on the oil. If you're getting a R134a compressor, might as well finish the job - replace the receiver/dryer, flush everything else, and convert to R134a anyhow. What is a T/C?4. Also, would a genuine R12 TXV be better, or is it too marginal to worry about?I think I should do the FSM test for performance - they have a graph with ambient temp and a/c temp. I'm doing one thing at a time so I know what the cause was. gital control scheme. R12, on the other hand, is called chlorofluorocarbon (CFC). There are other refrigerants: some of which may work, some of which dont work, some of which will destroy your a/c system and some of which are dangerous. When ever possible you should ask the technician to note the same information on your repair bill and keep a copy in your glove box for future reference. Consider using the newer valve, even with 134a stamped on the valve. Spray it deep, and let it sit for a few minutes. A/C receiver difference between R12 and R134a? (On firewall where A/C lines go into cab.) One thing at a time here, and slowly, the knee is not up to jumping around like I used to at the moment. Concentration level: The R134a vapor dilutes the oxygen concentration in the air to a low level, thereby causing harm. Als nostres webs oferimOne Piece,Doctor Who,Torchwood, El Detectiu ConaniSlam Dunkdoblats en catal. Since the hose is the stock hose, you cannot tell what refrigerant is inside. 05-25-2017 02:14 AM. You should keep in mind that recharging your air conditioner improperly could result in more serious damage. Very interesting! I'll put the relay on for that. I've straightened the fans I can and sprayed simple green on it, let it soak then hosed it down well. So I probably put the highest suggested amount in to be safe. Can I Use Automotive r134a in a Refrigerator | An Expert Guide The ozone depletion potential of a chemical is a factor that shows the level of degradation itll cause to the ozone layer that surrounds and secures the earth from harmful radiation. Instead, top off R12 with R134a refrigerant. Attach the R134a charge port adaptors, there are two types.. one of which you need to remove the old R12 valve cores. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. I'm going to check the condensor is way clean too. This is due to many facts: R134a refrigerant is about 10% less efficient in moving heat than R12! Read on for more information about using automotive r134a in a refrigerator and vice versa. The OEM spec is 2300 rpm @ 12.6v (engine stopped fully charged battery). ambulance tailgate conversion So that indicates it is cooling well there doesn't it? It has already been clearly stated that R12 is a chemical that damages the earths ozone layer and shouldnt be released into the environment no matter the circumstance. Should I do the test again with the the aux fan jumpered? Boiling Point: R134a refrigerants boiling point is -26.3C (-15.34F). This is because R134a. The expansion valve is designed so that the temperature of the refrigerant at the evaporator outlet must have 8 to 12F (4 to 7C) of superheat before more refrigerant is allowed to enter the evaporator. With the oil leaking out and being told all sorts of things about how these compressors don't have a sump etc, I wanted to be on the safe side. We are an automotive mechanic blog that helps mechanics and car users to find the most recent and accurate technical and repair information for their cars. Bottom line, R134a simply doesn't cool as well as R12. Compared with the cost-performance ratio, R507 is 30-40% . Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. Electric fans do wear out. The problem with using an approved alternative refrigerants other than R134a is that when the system is serviced it requires certain types of fittings, labels and dedicated equipment. A/C Expansion Valve Replacement Cost. It's helluva humid and hot here in north florida, and I drive around all day for my job. Thanks so much Bohica - you've save me many more hours of fruitless speculation. At this point it is time to make an appointment with the a/c shop. For example, at an evap temp of 30 (your daughter's system is probably running around 25-28 saturated in order to give a 32 duct temp), the pressure of R-134a is 26.1psi. Is there a difference in the expansion valve for R12 as opposed to R-134a? Nice to use new gadgets! shown for the parallel flow, aluminum condenser that is listed. don't know enough about the subject to explain the choices.However, a few days ago I called the dealer to see about an OEM TEV and they said something that made me feel a little bit better; the same part number superceded every application back to the '60s, and that they couldn't do that without engineering signing off on it.Still, I would feel a lot better if I could see something written officially that compared the flow characteristics and performance of r12 and 134a TEVs are concluded that they were interchangeable in automotive applications.If someone knows of such a document I would sleep much better!Walt Edited: Mon September 12, 2005 at 8:13 PM by wamcneil. Besides, its technology has been tested and trusted. To prevent refrigerant loss you should consider replacing your old hose lines with barrier type hose. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. An extra half ounce? As R134A refrigerant has different operating characteristics and pressures this valve is not necesssry. At the time I thought nothing of it, but now I am thinking maybe that is contributing to the system not working as well as it could. I don't recall all the details, but starts off with the largest parallel flow condenser and improved fans. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. The expansion valve(Tx) is in the car at the inlet line to the evaporator with compressors you best get advice from an ac specialist shop as the differences could be the gas that it pumps some systems use R12 and others use R134a or later gas yes R1234yf Freon gas can be replaced by R134a; the newer systems were designed with this in mind so no, there will be no damage to the compressor but some time in . The only mechanical differences between an R12 system and an R134a system are that R134a systems typically have larger condensers and more powerful compressors. Flush with a garden hose - do not use a high pressure washer - you can bend the fins flat & damage the condensor.B. However, the supply houses don't indicate a difference. The cost of recharging the air conditioner is between $150 to $500. This is a great space to write long text about your company and your services. The only material difference between automotive A/C and a window A/C unit or refrigerator is that in the home application, the components are all inside the same rectangular box, but in the automotive application, the components are distributed throughout the car. A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . You do not however need to replace all the o-rings or seals for a simple conversion, it is simply a logical thing to do when and if the time comes to work or replace certain components because of age issues. And, unfortunately a small high side pressure gauge on a short hose.