Additional doctrinal truth concerning the great gulf can be found in the Doctrine and Covenants (see D&C 138:1837). They are sons of perdition because, Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to open shame (D. & C. 76:35). Mormon theology ultimately portrays Outer Darkness as heaven, and Satan as the God of that realm. Your generous support makes the work of MRM possible. With the exception of those who left the church and later rejoined, every other former Mormon left the church because they believed it is not true. A) Never had a body B) Did evil things in this world C) Never joined the LDS Church D) All of the above are true. To become a son of perdition one must sin against the Holy Ghost, but before that is possible, one must receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual Religion 324 and 325, 2001, p. 161). At the end of the twenty years, the knife would be withdrawn and again stabbed into us, with the resulting excruciating pain lasting another twenty years; this process would then be repeated for all eternity. In each New Testament passage that speaks of hell (the word hades is neutralneither a place of punishment nor reward but the place of departed spirits) the context associates it with suffering and punishment. ). 13:42), the fire that never shall be quenched (Mark 9:45), where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched (Mark 9:48), and cast into the fire (Luke 3:9). He stated that converts made by the Pharisees became twofold more the child of hell than their teachers (Matt. 5:22), burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire (Matt. 2:11). The Outer Darkness Dilemma - Official Website of the ex-Mormon Apologist (-Joseph Smith in the King Follett Discourse), There is my definition I used in my previous post. This is in contrast to the VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE, who will receive a kingdom of glory after the Final Judgment, and enter into one of three degrees of glory after the resurrection: celestial, terrestrial, or telestial kingdoms. Outer Darkness - Mormonism, The Mormon Church, Beliefs, & Religion According to the Doctrine and Covenants, this will be a place that even in outer darkness, where there is weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth (Doctrine and Covenants 101:91; also see 133:73). 15:2830). True, some former Mormons have expressed doubts and wondered if the church might possibly be true, which is a completely natural response after having left the one true church. If they decided they made a mistake because they still believed the church were true, they would be more apt to rejoin it rather than stay excommunicated and fight against it. So I found one, by Joseph F. Smith, Thus we see that the first death which came into the world is also the last death which shall be pronounced upon the sons of perdition. Publishing, 19871989), 4:227228. If he were ignorant, he could not have become perdition. 185 Heber J. What is Outer Darkness? In this parable, a king arranged a wedding for his son, but the normal guests did not come; therefore, the king sent his servants to gather guests from off the street. I said: I dont know and he said, How can I find outI just called Spencer Kimball and he told me he didnt know either. This is the second death. 10:28). . 20:14). 5. It is, therefore, important to examine carefully the context of each reference. They did what they did with their eyes open, and were in rebellion against God. The Book of Mormon does not teach the doctrinal truth that hell will end for the majority of those who suffer in the spirit prison prior to being resurrected and entering the telestial kingdom; however, this truth is clearly taught in the Doctrine and Covenants (see D&C 76:3638, 106). There was a movement a few years ago to have people deny the holy spirit on Youtube, where many a youtuber claimed they would now go to Outer Darkness. Everyone is already going to the terrestrial kingdom by default. Only a handful of "sons of perdition" would go. Mormonism - Afterlife and Salvation - Patheos Hence the saying: They will go into the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. Hell Second Death, Lake of Fire and Brimstone, and Outer Darkness Twelfth President Spencer W. Kimball wrote. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_perdition_(Mormonism). Generally, the outer darkness is thought to be hell; however, many Christians associate the outer darkness more generally as a place of separation from God or from the metaphorical "wedding banquet" that Jesus is expected to have upon his Second Coming . Italics in original). [1] See also Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed. It is doubtful if even Judas, who betrayed Jesus, was sufficiently enlightened to become a son of perdition (Gospel Doctrine,p. 545). So, in conclusion, I would have a hard time believing that you or billions of souls as you put will qualify for perdition even while taking Mormon beliefs into account. 23:33). What do Mormons believe happened in the pre-existence? hell.. In this context, outer darkness is the spirit prison, or that part of the spirit world that the wicked inhabit prior to their resurrection. Joseph Fielding Smith and Bruce R. McConkie have rejected the idea that those in perdition can ultimately be redeemed, which contradicts Brighams speculations. . This is the choice of an individual to reject God. Thirty-three times it stands alone, without modifiers or explanation of what it means, as in And thus we see the end of him who perverteth the ways of the Lord; and thus we see that the devil will not support his children at the last day, but doth speedily drag them down to hell (Alma 30:60). We will, however, address some of the portrayals of other LDS beliefs and practices that were depicted in this episode. [3] Larry E. Dahl, The Concept of Hell, in Doctrines of the Book of Mormon (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1992), 4243. And if they be evil they are consigned to an awful view of their own guilt and abominations, which doth cause them to shrink from the presence of the Lord into a state of misery and endless torment, from whence they can no more return; therefore they have drunk damnation to their own souls. The Three Most Abominable Sins | Religious Studies Center Outer darkness is a eternal place of torment reserved for those who are "sons of perdition." According to LDS scripture, this will be a place that "where there is weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth" (Doctrine and Covenants 101:91; also see 133:73). While John could be referring to the sons of perdition in this passage, the specific sins he identified are characteristic of those who will suffer in hell but, after experiencing their part in the lake of fire, will be released from their torment and be resurrected to a telestial glory (see D&C 76:10312). The New Testament testifies that there is an actual place identified as hell into which people can be cast, as in the case of the wicked, and from which they can lift up their eyes, as in the case of the rich man, and from which they can be delivered, as in the case of King David. In this realm, as the name implies, there will be no light, and consequently no heat. Who goes to Outer Darkness, a handy guide - Exploring Mormonism The Book of Mormon teaches that after death, the spirits of those who "chose evil works rather than good" in mortality will be "cast out . Source: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/sons-of-perdition. How impossible would it be for a former Mormon (with full knowledge, even!) Here, like John and Samuel, Alma equated the second death with the lake of fire and brimstone. Clearly, when it comes to perdition and outer darkness, I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me, and anyone who speaks on the matter has a dizzying intellect. They will not have a kingdom of glory. Whats interesting is that there are many former Mormons who still believe Jesus Christ was the Son of God and have a testimony of the Spirit of the Lord. However, their faith no longer is in the Jesus of Mormonism but the Jesus of the Bible. The prophet Alma described the disposition of those in outer darkness: And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evilfor behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their houseand these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil (Alma 40:13; cf. Outer darkness is something which cannot be described, except that it is to be placed beyond the benign and comforting influence of the Spirit of Godbanished entirely from his presence. One example would not be human since they were cast out of heaven with Satan before they could receive a body. (p. 273). Mormons believe that a majority of people on this Earth will go to one of these three heavens. Because of the resurrection, the body and spirit of the wicked are restoredthe body from the grave and the spirit from hell to be judged. 1. It is simply his opinion. Christians have debated for centuries the nature of the hell fire of which Jesus spoke (Matt. Alma 40. So only a prophet can put the matter to rest well, thats nice that Brigham said there were no women, Joseph F. said there were no women, but Wilford Woodruff said there was no debate and there must be women. Is Jesus the Only Redeemer? The first example would be spirits from the preexistence who sided with Lucifer rather than Jesus at the Council in Heavenwhere it was decided who would become the Savior of the World. We believe that after the final judgment there are four places to which a person may be sent. The Book of Mormon clarifies that the lake of fire and brimstone is a metaphor for the suffering of the wicked. It is true that the only mortals who had once been members are eligible to become sons of perdition, a fact that may worry some former Mormons who wonder if they might be destined for outer darkness. (See D&C 76:2835, 4448.) What is the Mormon plan of salvation? King Benjamin defined the cause of this great torment: Therefore if that man repenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, the demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill his breast with guilt, and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever. First, it is another name for spirit prison, a temporary place in the postmortal world for those who died without a knowledge of the truth or those who were disobedient in mortality. The question is, what exactly does full knowledge entail? The filthy would be more miserable to dwell with God than to dwell in hell, Morm. Your generous support makes the work of MRM possible. Well thats wrapped up as long as no other prophets said oh. Clearly fire is used as a metaphor for sufferingnot a literal fire but a state of misery. The third use occurs in the parable of the talents: "And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 25:30). 34:3435; note Almas repetitive use of the word state in Alma 40:1112; see also D&C 101:9091; 133:7073). Yet I an certainly exempt from outer darkness, no questions asked. These spirits never received a mortal body necessary to progress to a kingdom of glory. In Christianity, the "exterior darkness" or outer darkness is a place referred to three times in the Gospel of Matthew (8:12, 22:13, and 25:30) into which a person may be "cast out", and where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth". Women or not. Because reasons. Sons of perdition include (1) those who followed Satan and were cast out of heaven for rebellion during premortality and (2) those who were permitted to be born to this world with physical bodies but then served Satan and turned utterly against God. With the sons of perdition, however, even this blessing is denied. kingdoms of glory. In Christianity, it is understood that anyone who denies the holy spirit goes to outer darkness, but they see it as a synonym for Hell. Outer darkness is something which cannot be described, except that we know that it is to be placed beyond the benign and comforting influence of the Spirit of God-banished entirely from his presence. (Doctrines of Salvation 2:220-221). (To see his baptism for the dead record and other temple work done for him, click here.). Utterly turn against god. ( Miracle of Forgiveness 129-30) The Lord Will Judge For persons not to receive forgiveness neither in this world nor in the world to come does not mean that they will be cast into outer darkness, for the sin of murder can be pardoned even though it is unforgivable. This isnt something like going out and breaking their rule of no drinking. 14:1819). Hmmm.. I doubt whether it can be found, from the revelations that are given and the facts as they exist, that there is a female in all the regions of hell. Brigham Young Journal of Discourses 8:222. In Peters second general epistle to the Church, he taught concerning the angels who had sinned, saying that God cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness (2 Pet. Please read, the source above, What is Official LDS Doctrine. A person would have to be very wicked to know the church was true yet still fight against it! The word hell is mentioned twenty-three times in the New Testament: fifteen times in the Gospels, twice in the book of Acts, once each in James and 2 Peter, and four times in the book of Revelation. (To see the differences between the three kingdoms of glory, click here.) Hell is a state of suffering, both temporary and permanent. So why dont we get outer darkness too? Mormon Wiki, for example has a pretty specific definition of who doesnt go there but lacks any citations: Sons of Perdition as those few souls who have been born on this earth who have been made partakers of Gods power, yet suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy God by denying the Holy Spirit after having received it, denying the Only Begotten Son and put him to an open shame. They openly and knowingly fight against God and Christ, having sided with Satan even though they had once tasted of full gospel knowledge by the power of the Holy Ghost.There are those who fear that they have committed the unpardonable sin, because they have not been faithful members of the Church. The Lord said no man knoweth So, theres probably a good reason that there is some debate and confusion on it. In the parable of the talents, the returning lord instructed that the wicked and slothful servant who hid his talent in the earth be cast into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matt. Italics in original). Source: https://www.fairmormon.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/What_is_Mormon_Doctrine.pdf. 22:13) if it is also a place of perpetual fire (Matt. They believe that they are mortal men capable of mistakes just like the rest of us. Smith told a general conference audience: I think I am safe in saying that no man can become a Son of Perdition until he has known the light. That Satan rebelled against Christ and God the Father and was cast out with all of Satans followers and will not receive a body. To the Church in Smyrna the Apostle John wrote: He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death (Rev. [2]. It doesnt matter because I never joined. The Book of Mormon text confirms the truth of New Testament teachings on hell, second death, lake of fire and brimstone, and outer darkness. . 16:18). Both Luther, who taught soul sleep till the resurrection of the dead, and Calvin, who taught the immortal soul, considered the "outer darkness" references in Matthew to refer to the last judgment. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. 1:13), gates of hell (2 Ne. Also, Joseph confuses things further by combining words typically used with Hell to describe outer darkness: A sinner has his own mind and his own mind damns him. Dennis L. Largey, Hell Second Death, Lake of Fire and Brimstone, and Outer Darkness, inThe Book of Mormon and the Message of the Four Gospels, ed. 2:4). As explained in D&C 88:11-13: 20:14), or the outer darkness (Matt. Satan and his followers are beings of spirit who were denied bodies and cast out of heaven during pre-mortal existence (see Plan of Salvation). so we will be able to realistically discuss the likelihood that a person who left the church could ever end up in Outer Darkness. It honors and glorifies Satan. Thus the Book of Mormon does seem to contain a reference to the degrees of glory and outer darkness. and they were judged every man according to their works (Rev. Do Mormons Believe in Hell? - Truth in Love Ministry By taking 2 Nephi 2:25 to its logical conclusion, we learn that Satan also fell that men might be, and that they might have joy! While this is true, please define Mormon Doctrine before saying I did not quote Mormon Doctrine. Okay, so Cain, we have one guaranteed person according to no citation whatsoever. Big Love's episode "Outer Darkness" Summary: It is not our intention to discuss details of the portrayal of the temple ceremony here. Thank you! Another name for Outer Darkness is hell. Consistently, hell is associated with fire. Mormons believe that there Prophets are fallible and in no way perfect. Generally, the outer darkness is thought to be hell; however, many Christians associate the outer darkness more generally as a place of separation from God or from the metaphorical "wedding banquet" that Jesus is expected to have upon his Second Coming. To add an RSC website shortcut to your home screen, open the website in the Safari browser. Cain is a Son of Perdition. New Testament [ edit] Severe punishment for eternity, reserved for Satan and his demons as well as the sons of perdition, those humans who once embraced Mormonism and left to fight against the faith, even though they knew Mormonism was true. The second death is spiritual and is separation from God. Thank you! Just one sin. When I bring this issue up with some Latter-day Saints, I sometimes get defensive arguments. Those mortals who did join the LDS Church in this lifetime must fit the following criteria to be classified as a son of perdition, with a destiny to outer darkness. John identified specific sins that would lead to the lake of fire and brimstone: But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death (Rev. 9:710, 19, 26). How we misinterpret "black" and "curse" in the scriptures: Insights Return to the Crash Course Mormonism Index. [Discourse given on 20 January 1895.] 15:29, 35; Alma 19:29; 54:7), sleep of hell (2 Ne. lift[ed] up his eyes and saw Abraham and Lazarus across an impassable gulf (Luke 16:23). Even the most evil of people, including Adolph Hitler and those of his ilk, appear to have a place reserved for them in nothing less than the telestial kingdom. Becoming a son of Perdition is hard therefore going to outer darkness is hard. In Jesus parable of the rich man and Lazarus, Jesus contrasted the afterlife state of the lowly Lazarus with that of the self-absorbed rich man. Do "apostates" go to outer darkness or telestial kingdom? A church manual reports, To become a son of perdition one must sin against the Holy Ghost, but before that is possible, one must receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual Religion 324 and 325, 2001, p. 161). How many people. 8:17), and endless hell (Moro. 3:12), the tares are gathered and burned in the fire (Matt. 9:16), unquenchable fire (Mosiah 2:38), and hell fire (3 Ne. If their Prophet wrote in a journal, or said to someone in passing, or gave a talk a local school saying that, Eating toast without butter is a sin worthy of hell! that does not make it a Mormon Doctrine. Are the devils before the world created sons of perdition? So get what they deserve. Yet how many sins and wrong choices has every humanincluding me and youmade? What qualifies a person to be a Son of Perdition? How unfair is this scenario? 18:8)? Jesus marvelled at the faith of a centurion he met in Capernaum and proclaimed that many would come from the east and west, and [would] sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the tormented rich man in hell . 12:22). Woman must atone for sins committed by the volition of her own choice, but she will never become an angel to the devil, and sin so far as to place herself beyond the reach of mercy. Brigham Young Discourse delivered October 8, 1861, pp. Oh yes they did: after a man has sinned the sin against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for himlike many of the apostates of Christof the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Mormons also believe that those on Earth with bodies can become a Son of Perdition, tho this is difficult to do. But to pass it off as a belief of an entire Church, organization and people is wrong. In the Book of Mormon the phrase lake of fire and brimstone is used as a metaphor for the suffering that awaits the wicked. At the same time, prophets and apostles have taught that you can be sent to outer darkness for simply disbelieving or for apostasy or for being a part of a religion that doesn't have apostles. Johns references to the second death testify of its existence but do not offer any explanatory information that instructs those readers who do not already understand the doctrine. While many Latter-day Saints bristle at the doctrine of hell (i.e., How could a loving God send His children to such a place?), they may have not considered the fact that these spirits were never given the chance to have a physical body because of the wrong choice they made in the preexistence. He also saw a pale horse with a rider whose name was Death, and Hell followed with him (Rev. Outer Darkness is the permanent location of Satan and his followers and the Sons of Perdition, who are not redeemed by the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Which would be a sure-fire way to know that a spirit is headed to Outer Darkness? [1] The pains of hell can also be experienced in mortality (Jacob 3:11). So, in the Mormon view, none of these so-called polygamist marriages are valid, religiously or legally. Clearly, when it comes to perdition and outer darkness, I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me, and anyone who speaks on the matter has a dizzying intellect. Even the wicked of the earth who never knew the power of God, after they have paid the price of their sinningfor they must suffer the excruciating torment which sins will bringshall at last come forth from the prison house. Again, the doctrine of the second death is woven together with other essential parts of the plan of salvation, offering the reader the big picture concerning Gods judgments. An in depth look at the Mormon doctrine of hell. So the prophet, meeting with apostles is clear on this, there are women. Although this is an obvious scare tactic, this accusation is not true according to important LDS leaders. Pingback: The Shunning Key by bwv549 - Mormon Bandwagon, A Son of Perdition is: In Mormonism, it depends. And now I say unto you, that mercy hath no claim on that man; therefore his final doom is to endure a never-ending torment (Mosiah 2:3839). Those who have never received the light are not to become Sons of Perdition. Jacob taught that the lake of fire is not a literal fire but a figurative representation of torment: And assuredly, as the Lord liveth, for the Lord God hath spoken it, and it is his eternal word, which cannot pass away, that they who are righteous shall be righteous still, and they who are filthy shall be filthy still; wherefore, they who are filthy are the devil and his angels; and they shall go away into everlasting fire, prepared for them; and their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever and has no end (2 Ne. 21:8; see also 19:20). I wonder if the language is tripping people up here. Johns announcement of death and hell releasing their dead for judgment is augmented by the Book of Mormon prophet Jacob, who taught the same doctrine but provided significantly more detail. Even if a person had once been a Latter-day Saint, Kimball said it still was practically impossible for a human to become a son of perdition: The sin against the Holy Ghost requires such knowledge that it is manifestly impossible for the rank and file to commit such a sin (Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 123) (Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual Religion 324 and 325, p. 161). It clarifies how using an obscure quote does not define LDS doctrines or dogmas. Making the LDS Church Slightly Better: A Members Wish List. Whether Christians have believed hell to be literal or figurative, the New Testament metaphor of an unquenchable lake of fire has conjured up for believers in the Bible harsh images of souls consigned to never-ending punishment as recompense for their evil deeds done while on earth. Death brought a reversal of their conditions wherein the rich man in hell became a beggar, longing for a drop of water from the finger of Lazarus, who was now in heaven, or Abrahams bosom. In the parable Abraham explained the impossibility of receiving his request, because between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence (Luke 16:1926). In addition, Alma defined the second death as dying as to things pertaining unto righteousness. These individuals are chained down to an everlasting destruction and are subject to the will of Satan. I was taught that to be condemned to outer darkness you would have to deny Christ to his very face and that could occur . (J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Church Leaders and the Scriptures, [original title When Are the Writings or Sermons of Church Leaders Entitled to the Claim of Scripture?] Immortality and Eternal Life: Reflections from the Writings and Messages of President J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Vol, 2, (1969-70): 221; address to Seminary and Institute Teachers, BYU (7 July 1954); reproduced in Church News (31 July 1954); also reprinted in Dialogue 12/2 (Summer 1979): 6881.). This is a Son of perdition. The followers of Satan who will suffer with him in eternity. Unless someone has rejected love, like the Nephites, I believe there is still hope that they will repent. Plagiarism and The Globe a comparative analysis, The Shunning Key by bwv549 - Mormon Bandwagon, https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/sons-of-perdition, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_perdition_(Mormonism), https://www.fairmormon.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/What_is_Mormon_Doctrine.pdf, https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Plan_of_salvation/Sons_of_Perdition/Can_women_be_%22Sons_of_Perdition%22, LDS Church and Same Sex Marriage Timeline, The Pump LDS film and the original source, Ethan Smith, Hyrum Smith, Oliver Cowdery, Solomon Spaulding connections. 4. It is taught that, in the pre-mortal life, they chose to follow a plan proposed by Satan, rather than that presented by God the Father. However, I think the breakdown I have above is accurate because outer darkest is a place of permanence for the filthy. Concerning the first resurrection John observed: Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years (Rev. Therefore the Lord used Satans evil acts to accomplish his own purposes. That it is the most severe punishment that can be meted out to man is apparent. Many of the apostates of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Even the regular Wikipedia seems confused: Sons of Perdition are: The pre-mortal spirit followers of Satan. (The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 125). Thus ensued the War in Heaven, which resulted in Satan and his followers being cast out of heaven and denied the opportunity of receiving a physical body. This extreme punishment will not be given to any but the sons of perdition (Doctrines of Salvation 2:220). 21:8). (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966), 758. 14:18.) Doctrine and Covenants / Pearl of Great Price, Mormon Objections to Christian Evangelism, Teachings of the Presidents of the Church.